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In this episode, James talks to Mark Kreitzman, Chief Cyber Evangelist at Afani and host of the Afani Features podcast, whose thirty year career took him from typing BASIC games into an Apple II to building the email and web security platforms later acquired by Microsoft and Cisco. He shares the story of an email administrator whose t shirt read gave a glimpse into how much power sat behind old email filtering systems long before spam filters moved to the cloud. Mark then walks through the night in 2018 when his phone went dead in the middle of the Arizona desert, the start of a sim swap attack that drained his Bitcoin and hijacked his accounts in just sixty one minutes. He describes socially engineering a carrier employee into revealing who was behind it, and how that ordeal pushed him to co found Afani, a mobile carrier built around preventing sim swapping attacks.